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Episode 1x06 [The Thrill of the Hunt]

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Episode 1x06 [The Thrill of the Hunt]

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[disney] dear lj, [misc] dear lj
Good evening (or morning, afternoon or night, depending on your time zone), and welcome to the discussion post for The Thrill of the Hunt!

If you have any problems or queries, don’t hesitate to let me or one the other moderators know. We’re happy to help, and we want to make sure everybody has fun here. You can comment on this post, or contact us via PM or our Bronx-guarded mailbox if you want a bit more privacy.

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With the introductions of the Awakening episodes out of the way, and the viewers now familiar with the both the Manhattan setting and the Manhattan clan (and some of their principle allies and enemies), the writers could turn their attentions to really developing the characters and their world. They began to do this with a series of three episodes, each one focusing on a different member of the trio - Broadway, Brooklyn and Lexington.

Lex was up first, and, in The Thrill of the Hunt, experienced things that would shape his character, and his view of the world, for the rest of the series.

Even Greg Weisman, in his ‘Ask Greg’ section for this episode, acknowledged that Lex was shortchanged in terms of episodes in which he played a primary role. It’s fortunate, really, that the episodes in which he does take centre stage are all very good.

Points of Interest

(Just a few ideas to warm you up. Discussion certainly isn’t restricted to these few points. Feel free to elaborate on them, add more of your own, or, if you like, wander off on interesting tangents. I’m fond of interesting tangents.)


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“I’m never trusting anyone again.”

This is, without a doubt, Lex’s episode. He is the one who will be changed forever by the events that we see – they’ll continue to have a big impact on him throughout the series, much as Temptation and Deadly Force will see permanent changes in Brooklyn and Broadway, respectively – and he is the one who reaches out to the Pack in the first place.

I think the most poignant thing about his role is the fact that he was right. Eventually, Goliath acknowledges that the clan can’t hide away and will have to take risks from time to time. (“To do otherwise is to remain forever alone.”) Unfortunately, by the time this realisation has hit him, Lex has started to change his mind.

Goliath attempts to comfort Lexington by repeating his own earlier words, but I’m not convinced that he is convinced. He still looks rather dejected, and the rest of the clan returns before the conversation can continue any further. What do you think?

At the beginning of the episode, his naivety – his belief in the Pack and what they see on the TV screen, not to mention his faith in the world – is actually a great strength. His journey during The Thrill of the Hunt is not an easy, or a pleasant, one. He’s effectively lost quite a bit of that naivety. (I might be reading too much into this, but his delight in their new world seems to be restricted to machinery and things, rather than people, from this point on.) Even if he believes Goliath’s words, I don’t think he’ll be willing to stick his neck out again.

The Pack

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“When we took this job we were promised fame, money and action. I’m not complaining about the first two, but I could use some more of the third.”

Right from the beginning, the Pack make it clear that they are not ordinary TV stars. The conversation in their Media Studios makes sure everyone know exactly who (and what) they are. They’re real soldiers, real mercenaries, real warriors. And they’re dangerous.

That said, I can’t help but wonder if anyone thought – or if anyone hoped - that Lex would be right and they would turn out to be allies. I, personally, didn’t. As soon as they started talking about hunting, I knew we were dealing with a new group of bad guys. I just wasn’t sure what type of bad guy. It was really strange to realise that they were engaging Goliath and Lexington simply because they were bored. (Strange, and a little unsettling.)

The most unsettling thing about it was that it was a very human thing to do. For a certain type of human. Obviously, as the audience, we know that the Gargoyles are the good guys. The Pack don’t, though. As far as they – and most of the human race – are concerned, the clan are just monsters. Animals to hunt. They don’t realise they’re doing anything wrong, not at first, and their desire to meet Goliath is no different to the way trophy hunters in the African bush seek out the pride leaders and the fierest creatures to display on their walls.

Later on, of course, the Pack lose this slice of unpleasant humanity and become out and out bad guys. Fox takes a hostage to use as a shield between herself and Goliath. Greg points out that this isn’t something she’d do in later episodes. At this stage, he suggests, she “checked her brain at the door”. Why? Because she had no idea what the gargoyles were actually capable of. Her own safety took priority over the hunt.

Jackal thought much the same thing. He started to run, and it was only once the Pack started to disintergrate as a unit and think as individuals that their hunt started to fail and the gargoyles started to win. Which is proof that even the bad guys benefit from teamwork.

“Cowards! I thought you fought with honour!”

How do you define honour? The use of traps at the beginning of their hunt, rather than engaging Goliath and Lexington face to face, suggests that they aren’t the warriors Lex believed them to be. For me, the term ‘warrior’ suggests nobility and courage and, yes, a sense of honour. Fighting with rules. Fighting for the right reasons, such as self defence or the protection of innocents. The gargoyles fall neatly into that box, but the Pack don’t.

The Clan and the Castle

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“Every minute you stay here, you’re in danger!”

This isn’t a huge point in the episode – just a relatively minor conversation between Elisa and Goliath at the very beginning – and I don’t want to steal the thunder of whoever ends up leading the discussion on Enter Macbeth, but it still deserves mentioning.

Goliath might have been in Manhattan for a while, but he is still very naïve and very stubborn. He didn’t understand, or even want to understand, Elisa’s attempt to explain the situation. Her role as mediator and protector isn’t an easy one, is it? I don’t blame her when she says “I think your head stays rock hard even at night.” It’s one thing to teach someone about their new world, but it’s another thing entirely when they won’t listen.

Although, in fairness to Goliath, he is stuck in a 10th century mindset. Scheming and plotting, something the villains in Gargoyles pride themselves on, wasn’t quite as commonplace back them. A victory was a victory, and attacks and invasions took priority over politics. The defeated might try and return after regrouping, but, if you were defeated soundly enough – and Goliath clearly thinks Xanatos was – then why bother?


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“All in all, I’d say the test was most informative.”

Ok, let’s be honest. Who really expected Xanatos to have had a hand in the events of the episode? I have to admit, when I first saw it – which was quite a while ago, now – I was surprised by his sudden appearance. Probably because I was close to six years old and naively assumed that prison stopped the bad guys entirely.

Now, however, I’ve got to admit that I’m impressed rather than surprised. After all, the Pack clearly aren’t new – look at the number of fans and the scale of their shows – and Xanatos can’t have known about the clan that far in advance. It makes me wonder what else he might be planning, it makes me question his motives even more and it certainly makes me concerned about what else he might have had a hand in.

As Owen noted, he doesn’t make a habit of harbouring grudges. Why bother, when planning for the future is much more important?

Actually, speaking of Owen, even he didn’t really know what was going on. (Not if the conversation in the cell is anything to go by, at least.) Did he realise it was a test? Did he think Xanatos honestly wanted Goliath and the others dead? To what extent can you predict the actions of a man like Xanatos, anyway? ‘Expect the unexpected’ is probably about all you can do.

Episode Roundup

Gargoyles Defying the Laws of Physics: 4
Star Trek Voices: 2
Dramatic Awakening Scene: 1
New Minor Returning Characters: 9
- The Greenes (Billy, Susan and William, and Sarah Browne)
- The Pack
(‘Minor Characters’ doesn’t seem right for them, but they aren’t quite major characters either. Medium characters? Either way, they up the figures a lot, so here they are!)

Remember to let me know if you have any of your own categories to add! Thanks to trickster_brat for the last one.

Handy Links

- GargWiki
- Greg’s Episode Ramble
  • Lexington was always my favorite character, back in the day. Goliath was beautiful and all, but Lex was the one I wanted to hang out with--he's not as stiff and he always seemed like more fun. It took me a long time to realize my other reason for liking Lex: poor guy's always alone, always the third wheel, hardly ever gets some screentime to himself. I felt bad for him.

    I do notice at the start of the episode, Elisa shows up just before the sun is quite gone. I bet at this point there's still a little bit of wonder, if they really will break out of the stone this time or if one day they'll just... stop.

    "Sometimes I think your head stays rock-hard at night." She is backtalking a gargoyle who could bench-press a minivan. That is hardcore brave of her.

    Did the EVIL NINJAS ever leave anyone else snickering? They're always called that, they're always in full EVIL NINJA dress, and they remind me of the Foot too much for me to take them seriously. Considering the kinds of silly antics TV ninjas are wont to try, I'm honestly surprised the gargoyles didn't catch on sooner that they're fakes.

    Hey, anyone else here follow the comics? How's the "Bad Guys" story working out? Is it worth a shot?
    • He's always been my favourite as well. At first it was because of the his geekiness, which I've always found rather adorable, and then later on I think I started to realise the same thing as you did. He never really got the level of attention that Broadyway and Brooklyn did.

      Well, it is probably the first time they've heard of ninjas. TV cliches that make us laugh probably seemed fascinating then. And, since they wouldn't have heard of special effects either, it might not occur to them that dodgy attack moves are ... well, just that.
  • (no subject) -
    • I've always loved the look on Lex's face when he talked to Fox for the first time. He really was a fanboy.

      Oh, me too. Definitely!
  • Lex was always the cute one to me. I know he's a capable warrior in his own right but compared to the others he's little. I enjoyed his belief in the veracity (truth) of what he saw on TV. And cried a little for him when he realizes that the Pack are not what he thought they were or hoped they'd be. I think he was looking for new friends and after being rejected by the first people he reaches out to I think he does find more comfort in machines and being the tech expert.

    I think Wolf is creepy. Well the whole pack is creepy at first. Wolf just gets alot creepier later. The thing I can't believe is that Xanatos did set all this up and that Fox went along with it. I know she was being paid but given what we find out about her later it makes me wonder why did she do it? And how come anyone from her former life didn't recognize her?

    At least Goliath realizes that Lex was right about them reaching out to others. The thing I've never understood is why does Elisa never tell her family about the Gargoyles?

    Unfortunately, I've got to run now because my mom needs to use the computer but I'll be back later.
  • I think that Xanatos may have originally planed for The Pack to used the way he uses the Clan. With their abilities The Pack could have stolen those disks and I'm sure Fox would have liked the idea. I don't want to get too far ahead but given the enhancements they later received I can't think (or at least remember) anything that the Clan did that The Pack couldn't have done.
  • Ok it's me again. Does anyone else ever get why the Pack didn't get in more trouble for all the damage they did? I know they got arrested for holding the model hostage but what about blowing up the buildings and all the other stuff? Or is this just me proving once again I take this way too seriously? As for Xanatos' test what else could he possibly want to use the Pack for? He's already got one set of "comic book rejects" why does he need more? Singling out the two exceptions Dingo and Fox most of these guys seem like nothing but bad news. And when we meet them here not even Dingo and Fox should be exempt. Playing on Lex's emotions. Basically they saw the poor guy coming. I kind of liked the jaded cynical Goliath I saw here but I still wonder what kind of attachment he has for that castle. I mean its not even in Scotland anymore and Xanatos obviously played around with it so its not even the same castle he remembered. As for Owen, to me it was pretty much a given he's going to go along with whatever Xanatos tells him to do. If Xanatos said he wanted the clan dead he'd find a way to kill them. Elisa was taunting Owen with the fact that she had Xanatos arrested. Or am I being mean? I thought it was kind of funny but it makes you wonder if that's the being of the whole I don't like you very much vibe I keep getting from Owen and Elisa. Did anyone else notice Owen's pointy ears? The line I loved was at the end when everyone's coming back to the castle and Brooklyn tells the clan that the Pack has been arrested Hudson comes up behind him and says, "But I thought they were the good guys? Maybe we shouldn't believe everything we see on the television?" I'm thinking about making that my new motto for life. "Don't believe everything you see on TV."
    • should read "beginning of the whole I don't like you very much vibe..." Four years of college not to mention high school and grade school typing classes and I still can't type go figure.
    • (no subject) - atraphoenix - Expand
  • Hey all! Just joined this community. It's a really good idea, and I like the conversations going on around here. I wrote all the episode summaries on the gargwiki (not finished), so I've already gone over these things with a fine tooth comb lol.

    "why does Elisa never tell her family about the Gargoyles? "

    I have the answer to this. Basically she's being possessive, she doesn't want to share them. They're HERS. We find this out in "Revelations." She likes being their only human friend. She's just being selfish, really it's as simple as that. That's one thing I love about this show, the characters are real-they have flaws just like we do.
  • I think this was a good ep after the 5 parter that introduced us to the clan. My one problem was when I was young I didn't fully get how they could go from a 5 part ep, to 1. Maybe that's just me, but I found it a bit confusing to see that all that was placed in one ep.
    Anyway, I liked the whole Lexington ep; and more to the point Goliath and Lexington. The two don't seem to be together as much as say Goliath and Brooklyn or Goliath and Broadway; perhaps it's because later on Lexington's love of machine's makes him distant? Or that Goliath doesn't know how to deal with Lexington's love of machines? Just watching this made me realise that Goliath seems to relay more on Broadway and Brooklyn out of the trio than Lexington.

    The Pack, I think everyone gathered that they would be in the wrong. They were put together for a TV show, but what they do can be real as well, as it's shown, they love the thrill of a good hunt, probably because it makes them feel alive. Of course they didn't realise that gargoyles aren't exactly your run of the mill animals. They think the exact same as people, and they can fight the same way too. Had the Pack been better informed about the gargoyles, I think they would have defeated and probably killed Lexington and Goliath. As it was they all lost there place in their own pack, disintirgrating into calamity, with Fox taking a hostage most probably because she did fear for her life.

    • Lexington probably doesn't enjoy talking to Goliath all that much either, and I have a theory as to why.

      Ever had a really, really short friend? One who is kind of delicate and cute? Watch how people talk to her. They'll generally speak to her less like an equal and more like an adorable kid, no matter how mature she is. They'll sit differently, stand differently around that short friend to emphasize how much taller and bigger they are. They'll laugh when she's in genuine anger because she makes cute faces and has a small voice. They will not take her seriously unless she needs protection.

      Without even noticing, I'll bet Goliath has done this at least a few times to Lexington, especially growing up. Lex is a guy with a long memory for slights. Even if Goliath's gotten better, Lex probably still doesn't like being spoken to as anything less than a warrior.
    • (no subject) - atraphoenix - Expand
  • I thought that when Goliath admits Lex was right, he *does* believe it, but I think that he also knows that he, himself, will continue to have difficulty with it. I think he knows what Lex says (and what he repeats) is true, but he still needs to come to terms with it himself and he knows that it'll be difficult.

    I always thought that it was curious that Fox grabs a hostage; that's not something you'd do with a wild animal, you know? She might have taken the bystander and thrown it at Goliath, but she held her as a shield, banking on the idea that Goliath wouldn't "harm an innocent." So, while it wasn't calculated, it was an instinct that shows she was thinking of Goliath as another thinking, intelligent being, at least one some level, rather than just a predator.

    I always found it odd that Owen was still around at the castle - wouldn't he have been charged, too? Since he's involved in practically *everything* Xanatos is, on the business end, anyway? Doesn't that mean he would be considered for conspiracy? On that note, I don't know if I was expecting to see Xanatos at the end, but I wasn't surprised when he showed up. It made sense to me, especially since there was something fishy what with the TV being rigged to *only* show the Pack.

    "Xanatos can’t have known about the clan that far in advance. It makes me wonder what else he might be planning..."
    - I hadn't thought about that. Very true, though. Again, just another example of why I would LOVE to see a prequel/revisitation of these, earlier parts of the show, all about Xanatos, and from his point of view. There is SUCH a story there!!!
    • That's a good point regarding Fox. I can only guess that Xanatos had filled her in on the gargoyles, or told her a few things here and there considering this is Xanatos.

      I don't think the Owen thing ever occured to me, but you speak sense. I can only imagine that Xanatos and Owen are smart enough (and have good enough lawyers) where there's no evidence.

      Xanatos is awesome: it is a fact. And speaking of missing Xanatos, seeing what Xanatos did/would have done during Goliath's absense would have been interesting. That's what fanfic is for ;)
  • I'll admit that beyond Fox and Dingo, I've never really cared for the Pack, but they work well as an introduction to the regular series and a long term arc for Lex. It's odd seeing Wolf in such a competent 2IC role here considering the path he takes later on post-mutation. And of course the Pack show endorses everything the clan actually stands for: things that the individual Pack members don't live up to.

    The Pack show looks horribly cheesy, but I kind of want to see an episode. I mean, how did that atrocious set fit into things? And of course there's the Galaxy Quest hall of death - always a great idea to have one of those lying around. I'm sure Xanatos had many devious plans for the Pack, but plan C(rack) must have had something to do with repeating "Evil Ninjas" so many times as to influence the great ninja vs pirates debate. For what ends, only Xanatos knows.

    People have rightfully mentioned Fox's actions holding the model hostage, but I'm impressed with the photographer: he's going to take pictures of that model even if the roof caves in and there are guns and monsters. Although he missed out on selling a non manipulated photo to the Daily Tattler (something I'm surprised we never really heard of again).

    And randomly, do we ever see Harvey again? It's odd to have a named character that doesn't get much of a follow up.
  • Ever had a really, really short friend? One who is kind of delicate and cute?

    Lol! I don't know about delicate and cute, but I'm definitely the "short friend." Yeah, when I'm with a group of people I tend to get overlooked a lot. I never heard that theory about Lex. I don't think it's the whole reason he's overlooked a lot, but it could be a part of the whole.

    I think maybe Goliath doesn't understand him that well. They don't really have much in common. I'm guessing they didn't talk a whole lot in the dark ages. Lex is a very modern thinking gargoyle, Brooklyn is too, but I think he gets along better with Goliath because they both have that leadership quality. And I think Broadway has this sensitive/romantic quality that Goliath can relate to.

    Also, I just thought of this, Lex is gay, and I don't think he knew that for a while but he probably felt like he was different in a way so maybe he tends to isolate himself more.
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